In Episode 88 of Good Scribes Only, hosts Daniel Breyer and Jeremy Strike tackle the intriguing world of complex characters in literature and media. From literary masterpieces like Jonathan Franzen’s The Corrections to television icons like Don Draper of Mad Men, the discussion spans what makes a character resonate with readers and viewers alike.
As always, their thoughtful banter dives into layers of human behavior, moral ambiguity, and storytelling craft. Read on for highlights from this engaging episode, and don’t forget to tune in for the full conversation!
Complex characters go beyond the surface. They’re not just flawed; they are layered, realistic, and often relatable in their contradictions. As Daniel aptly put it, the best complex characters often have traits that make them despicable, yet they remain fascinating and even endearing to readers.
Jeremy expanded on this idea, reflecting on how shows like Succession and Mad Men succeed in portraying complexity. Don Draper, for instance, is a morally flawed character who still commands admiration, largely due to his charisma, success, and status. Jeremy noted, “The reptilian part of our brains thinks, ‘If I were in his shoes, I’d have it all.’”
This dynamic creates a unique form of storytelling where the audience is forced to grapple with their own moral judgments while staying invested in the character’s journey.
From Franzen’s The Corrections to Andrew Riddker’s Hope, Daniel and Jeremy explore how flawed characters elevate a narrative. These characters don’t simply make “good” or “bad” choices. Instead, their motivations stem from deep, often messy layers of their past experiences, insecurities, and personal code of ethics.
In discussing his own writing, Daniel shared insights from Smokebirds, his upcoming novel. “I want my characters to think they’re good people. That’s what makes them realistic—they’re justifying their behavior, even when it’s terrible.” This reflection highlights a key to crafting memorable characters: their own self-perception often clashes with how others see them.
The conversation delves into the world of television, with Daniel and Jeremy praising Game of Thrones for its masterful character arcs. Jaime Lannister, in particular, stands out as a character who transforms from an arrogant, morally bankrupt knight to a more honorable and reflective figure by the end of the series.
Jeremy noted, “Jaime pushes a child out of a window in the first episode, and yet, by the end, he sacrifices himself for others. That transformation is what makes him so compelling.”
Shows like Mad Men and Succession also receive high praise for their unflinching portrayal of flawed individuals, albeit with differing levels of redemption.
In a thought-provoking comparison, the hosts juxtaposed the works of James Baldwin with F. Scott Fitzgerald. While Fitzgerald’s works like The Great Gatsby are considered classics, Daniel argued that Baldwin’s characters are often more raw and multifaceted.
“Baldwin’s fiction is as good as his contemporaries, if not better. His characters are human at their best and worst,” Jeremy remarked. They also highlighted Baldwin’s willingness to tackle taboo topics, such as in Giovanni’s Room, a groundbreaking novel exploring gay relationships.
Fitzgerald’s characters, while iconic, are described as somewhat censored in comparison. This led to a discussion on how social context influences the complexity of characters in different eras.
Throughout the episode, the hosts ponder how storytelling itself has evolved, particularly in balancing accessibility and depth. They explore how some stories cater to broader audiences with simpler, more linear narratives, while others delve into psychological and moral intricacies that demand more from readers.
“Complexity doesn’t just mean darker or morally ambiguous,” Daniel explained. “It’s about showing the messy web of causes and effects that drive human behavior.” This nuanced understanding adds to the appreciation of characters across mediums.
Complex characters are at the heart of every great story. Whether it’s the moral dilemmas of Franzen’s characters, the redemptive arcs in Game of Thrones, or the emotional rawness of Baldwin’s fiction, these portrayals enrich narratives and challenge audiences to think deeply about human nature.
Want to hear more? Don’t miss the full episode of Good Scribes Only! Tune in now to join Daniel and Jeremy as they explore the craft of storytelling, the evolution of complex characters, and what makes them unforgettable.
